Podcast
Episode 28: Sonoran Roots
In this episode, Jeremy Basha, Chief Revenue Officer at Sonoran Roots, joins The Drip by AQUALAB to discuss how water activity is transforming cannabis production. As a leading recreational cannabis company in Arizona, Sonoran Roots has embraced a structured, data-driven approach to optimize curing, trimming, storage, and microbial control. Jeremy shares how precise water activity measurements have helped his team make informed decisions that enhance product quality and consistency.
About the guest
Jeremy Basha is the Chief Revenue Officer at Sonoran Roots, a vertically integrated cannabis company specializing in cultivation, extraction, and dispensary operations across Arizona. With a focus on quality and innovation, Jeremy and his team have implemented water activity measurements to refine post-harvest processes, improve efficiency, and ensure regulatory compliance. His expertise in the cannabis industry allows him to bridge the gap between science and operations, driving success in a rapidly evolving market.
Transcript
0.00
I'm Zachary Cartwright this is water and
0:02
food today my guest is Jeremy Basha
0:05
who's the chief Revenue officer at
0:06
Sonoran Roots a recreational Cannabis
0:09
company in Arizona today he's here to
0:11
talk about how his team uses water
0:13
activity measurements to increase their
0:15
yield in revenue and also make decisions
0:17
about when to take their products out of
0:19
their dry cure room let's hear what he
0:21
has to say in this special cannabis
0:22
edition of water and food
0:24
hi Jeremy welcome to the show how are
0:26
you doing today hi doing great thank you
0:28
very much appreciate you having me on
0:30
yeah thank you for being here I know we
0:32
usually focus on food products on water
0:34
and food but today we'll be talking
0:36
about cannabis so Jeremy can you give us
0:38
a little background information on on
0:40
who you are and who you work for
0:42
yeah my name is Jeremy Basha uh I work
0:45
with Sonoran Roos a cannabis company
0:47
here in Arizona
0:49
and how did you end up there how did you
0:51
find this company
0:53
um I was actually one of the founding
0:55
partners of the company and
0:58
um been in the industry here in Arizona
1:00
since 2014. uh the starting out in the
1:04
medical market and
1:06
uh you know just kind of evolved into a
1:09
larger Enterprise with
1:11
um a little bit a little bit uh more
1:15
varied uh scope and uh span of
1:19
operations originally we started out as
1:22
one retail location
1:24
um and grew into a retail and an
1:27
extraction company
1:28
and then Grew From that into a larger
1:31
Regional cultivation company with
1:35
increased extraction and while
1:38
maintaining the single retail dispensary
1:40
location
1:41
and is this something that you went to
1:43
school for or studied in school or how
1:45
did you find this interest
1:48
um I mean yeah in a roundabout way kind
1:50
of I definitely was very interested in
1:53
cannabis in school so
1:55
um but no not not something I formally
1:57
went to school for or
2:00
um you know have been formally trained
2:02
in any type of way
2:04
um I would say that the interest was
2:06
definitely sparked when I went to school
2:08
in in California between 2007 and 2011
2:13
and I gotten my very first medical
2:16
marijuana excuse me my very first
2:19
medical marijuana card when I moved out
2:21
there to go to college and that
2:24
experience of being able to grow my own
2:27
medicinal plants and go to the different
2:29
collectives and see all the different
2:32
novel products that were being made and
2:34
sold
2:36
um it definitely sparked a serious
2:38
interest and passion for me personally
2:40
so in a roundabout way it's kind of
2:41
something that developed out of my time
2:43
in school but not something I studied
2:45
specifically
2:47
ended having that medical card did that
2:49
allow you to to grow your own
2:52
um cannabis at home or what did that
2:54
look like yes so having the medical card
2:56
in California at that time in 2007 2008
3:00
that allowed me to grow six flowering
3:03
plants and 12 badge plants at home and I
3:06
had two roommates who also had their
3:08
medical card and so we had our little
3:10
little Co-op there a little mini mini
3:12
grow
3:13
that we maintained and it was absolutely
3:16
awesome
3:17
and then you took that knowledge with
3:19
you and how did you end up in Arizona
3:22
from here originally uh after after I
3:25
graduated from school at UCSD I moved
3:28
back to Arizona to help my family out
3:31
with some some different things and one
3:34
of my longtime friends who I went to
3:36
Junior High in high school with his
3:37
family had uh submitted for the original
3:42
Lottery and allocation of the medical
3:44
licenses in 2012. and they were awarded
3:47
two licenses and so
3:50
um kind of being the token Stoner of our
3:52
friend group I would say uh growing up
3:56
um they had reached out and
3:58
um you know we're kind of looking for
4:00
some help and looking for some
4:01
collaborative Partnerships and stuff and
4:03
we hit the ground running
4:06
and I know your company is doing lots of
4:08
different things craft cultivation
4:09
production manufacturing and so on can
4:12
you maybe talk about each of these
4:14
components and and what you guys are
4:15
working on
4:17
yeah absolutely so we're definitely uh
4:19
very focused and heavily focused on
4:22
indoor cultivation
4:24
um and we strive to produce craft uh you
4:28
know finished flowers for the flower
4:31
connoisseurs and the flower market and
4:33
demographic in our in our Market here
4:37
um
4:38
and we also just completed
4:41
um a complete revamp of our extraction
4:44
division built an entirely new lab uh
4:48
predominantly focused on BHO and light
4:51
hydrocarbon extraction
4:53
I saw all the dabble oils the waxes the
4:56
butters the shatters the sugars the the
4:58
whole nine right
5:00
um
5:01
and uh we've had a we've had a label
5:04
that we've distributed under on the
5:06
concentrate side since 2015 called
5:08
canimo concentrates
5:11
um
5:12
and you know on the retail side we have
5:14
the one Outlet in Glendale Arizona the
5:17
name of that location is Ponderosa
5:19
dispensary
5:21
and within all of those things we we
5:25
have
5:26
you know various collaborative
5:28
Partnerships and joint ventures with
5:30
other other companies and Brands
5:32
depending on
5:34
the different products and the different
5:35
divisions in the company
5:37
and how large is your operation now I
5:39
know you mentioned a few locations and
5:41
things but what is the the size of your
5:43
growing facilities
5:45
yes so the Mesa facility that we operate
5:48
out of is
5:49
um kind of a total overall footprint at
5:52
30 000 square feet
5:55
um our Tempe facility that's operational
5:57
right now
5:58
um is a total square footage of 25 000
6:01
square feet
6:02
and then we have a Chandler facility
6:05
that's
6:07
um still being built out and under
6:09
construction and underway that's 12 and
6:12
a half thousand square feet and then we
6:14
have a second Tempe facility that's also
6:17
under construction that's much larger at
6:19
sixty thousand square feet
6:21
so so lots of things going on it sounds
6:23
like yeah lots of things and
6:25
unfortunately lots of construction sure
6:27
and what are some of the challenges that
6:29
your team has come across as you've
6:31
grown in size especially as it relates
6:33
to the water in your products
6:36
as it relates to water in the products I
6:38
would definitely say the the
6:39
predominantly
6:42
um kind of realized issues on that side
6:46
of things is going to be the over drying
6:49
um the under drying and microbial issues
6:53
and and how do you work around these
6:55
issues how do you you know make sure
6:57
that you're not over drying and removing
6:59
water that you want in your products or
7:01
under drying and then you know
7:02
potentially having microbial or mold
7:04
grow in your products how do you monitor
7:06
that
7:07
over uh very fortunate and lucky to have
7:10
found an awesome company uh called the
7:12
meter group and we utilize
7:15
our Aqua lab device religiously testing
7:18
batches to see what the water activity
7:20
and moisture content's at
7:23
um and we use the Scala sensor system uh
7:26
to monitor in the dry cure rooms
7:29
um and so utilizing that technology has
7:31
enabled us to systematically and
7:33
methodically structure
7:37
um
7:38
Sops around the water content and the
7:41
water activity to make sure that we're
7:42
not taking it down too early we're not
7:44
taking it down too late
7:46
um you know the trim department is
7:48
getting
7:48
is getting flowers that are easy to trim
7:52
um you know and not too wet and too
7:54
sticky not too dry and too crunchy
7:57
um and we give ourselves the best
7:59
opportunity for a very nice uh proper
8:02
slow cure on the finished product
8:05
and how was water being monitored maybe
8:07
when you first entered the industry have
8:09
you seen this evolve over time or how
8:12
did you do this in the past compared to
8:15
how you're doing it now absolutely yeah
8:17
I mean when I first came in the industry
8:19
I don't think anyone was monitoring any
8:21
type of water activity or moisture
8:25
content or just
8:27
um water was really you know not at the
8:30
Forefront of the mind and dealing with
8:32
the production process
8:35
besides actually feeding the plants
8:38
if you were going to kind of measure
8:40
track that information you would have
8:42
had to cement
8:43
a sample to one of the testing labs for
8:46
a moisture content panel
8:49
um but I don't even know if that existed
8:51
at that point in time so predominantly
8:54
you know even leading all the way up
8:56
until we found and identified
8:59
um the different different products from
9:02
the meter group and from
9:05
um you know the Scala and the aqua lab
9:06
and so on it was really more so done
9:09
based off of subjective kind of
9:11
experience
9:13
um and some of that touch and feel basis
9:16
of you know do performing the SNAP test
9:19
um and uh you know just kind of based on
9:22
those the historical precedence of
9:25
harvesting a strain and how much time it
9:28
usually takes to dry and so on and so
9:30
forth
9:31
and you mentioned the snap uh the SNAP
9:34
test this is something has that has come
9:36
up in some of our previous podcasts but
9:37
maybe you can explain that a little bit
9:39
for listeners what that test is and then
9:41
how this new technology helps to replace
9:43
that test yeah absolutely the SNAP test
9:46
is uh you know taking a stock or
9:48
a branch of or a bud and uh breaking it
9:54
um and seeing kind of at what point it
9:56
actually snaps or if it's slowly kind of
9:59
bending but not breaking
10:02
um and really just kind of that very
10:05
manual feel uh process and
10:09
um you know compare comparatively
10:12
speaking with uh you know scientifically
10:14
measuring the water content and water
10:17
activity
10:19
um it's certainly a much different
10:20
process from collecting a sample and
10:21
putting it in the device and getting a
10:23
you know precise reading
10:26
um and you know using our
10:28
our thresholds that we've been um
10:32
you know very graciously set up with by
10:34
the company and by the team uh knowing
10:37
what our parameters are for
10:40
um you know quality and
10:43
um microbial you know safety levels
10:47
um Quality levels and then obviously the
10:51
the more moisture you you keep in the
10:53
flour the more weight you have at the
10:55
end of the day and so um there's a lot
10:57
of different factors that play into that
11:01
output that you're getting from those
11:03
devices
11:04
so it sounds like you know you went from
11:06
this really subjective method and having
11:08
maybe a lead grower somebody with
11:10
experience snap it and try to understand
11:12
if if it's ready or not now to using a
11:15
scientifically backed method where you
11:17
can get a measurement and really track
11:18
what's going on and I think this has
11:20
probably helped your team to reduce your
11:22
variation and then hit the marks that
11:24
you need was there something specific
11:25
that happened for your team to to make
11:28
this pivot or was it just something that
11:29
you learned about what what is there a
11:31
story behind that yeah absolutely uh you
11:34
kind of hit the nail on the head we had
11:35
a head of cultivation as one of the
11:37
founding partners of the company
11:39
um you just got a world
11:41
the experience and knowledge and when we
11:43
first opened our Mesa production
11:45
facility we were all running ragged uh
11:48
just working crazy hours and probably
11:50
out of everybody Jill working the most
11:53
and working those hours you know the
11:55
those longest hours the most and
11:58
um he had a family vacation planned and
12:02
um he was you know considering not going
12:05
and everyone's like dude you absolutely
12:07
have to go you need to take a break and
12:09
so we ended up you know going on it was
12:11
like a 10-day trip with this family
12:13
and when he had left and when I say he
12:17
was like you know doing everything in
12:19
the grow he was literally doing
12:20
everything you know he was burping the
12:22
bins
12:24
um you know he was hanging taking down
12:26
and he had people helping him but he was
12:28
making all the calls the decisions of
12:30
when to do what and so on so
12:33
um when he left and we had you know the
12:36
the flowers keep growing and we keep
12:38
harvesting and we keep going through our
12:39
processes
12:41
you know we realized pretty quickly that
12:43
we need to have some better controls in
12:46
place where you know Jill's able to take
12:48
a week-long or a 10 day long vacation
12:51
and we're not you know sitting there
12:52
wondering
12:54
should we burp the bins today should we
12:56
take this down tomorrow should you know
12:58
what should the trim team trim first
12:59
like it was it was pretty pretty
13:02
eye-opening from that standpoint so we
13:04
got lucky just did a little bit of
13:06
online research and found the meter
13:08
Group found the aqua lab and um we we
13:11
certainly haven't looked back
13:13
and I I see a lot of companies kind of
13:16
with similar stories that have a lead
13:17
grower somebody with that knowledge
13:19
because they've been growing for a long
13:21
time but just like you said if that
13:22
person's not around then then what do
13:24
you do how do you keep moving forward so
13:25
yeah really interesting and I'm glad
13:27
that you've been able to find you know
13:29
water activity and this has been able to
13:31
help your team
13:32
um when are you measuring water activity
13:34
what does that process look like is it
13:36
just during drying or or how often are
13:38
you taking these measurements we take
13:40
the measurements every day
13:42
um we do every day in the dry care rooms
13:44
when there's plants hanging and we do uh
13:47
the bins that are in queue to be trimmed
13:50
up and go into the
13:52
um the final cure post
13:55
we measure all of those every day and in
13:57
fact that's what structures are trim
14:00
schedule
14:01
we do it based off of the water activity
14:05
reading so we're constantly readjusting
14:07
our bins that are going to go out to get
14:09
trim next based on that day's reading
14:12
and then every single day in the dry
14:14
care room we're measuring flowers from
14:16
each batch that's hanging up making sure
14:18
that we're we're drying on on track and
14:22
they're staying you know as long as they
14:24
can in there before you know getting to
14:26
that point of over drying
14:29
and I also understand that your team
14:30
recently started using some
14:32
environmental sensors is is that correct
14:34
yep absolutely and why why are you using
14:37
these uh on top of taking water activity
14:40
measurements uh we definitely see that
14:42
as a complimentary
14:45
um process and and not a kind of
14:48
mutually exclusive one so
14:50
um it kind of takes the all of the
14:52
factors and specific to the dry care
14:54
rooms
14:56
um that accounts for all of those
14:57
different factors that the environmental
14:59
factors a temperature humidity space of
15:02
the room dimensions of the room so on
15:05
and so forth so
15:07
um and you're able to really get
15:09
granular with the scholar system in
15:11
terms of batch by batch and strain by
15:13
strain where we're not really tracking
15:16
um that information using the aqua lab
15:19
that's more of a day-to-day
15:20
decision-making tool the Scala sensor
15:23
and the Scala platform is more of a
15:27
longer term uh planning and structuring
15:32
Tool and mechanism that you're able to
15:35
use to determine the subtle differences
15:37
between strains you know if you have a
15:40
strain with looser bud structure
15:43
um that's you know not as condensed or
15:45
compact it's going to dry at a slightly
15:47
different rate than something that's you
15:49
know very kind packed very tight bud
15:52
structure
15:53
and some of those subtle differences
15:56
compounded over time make a major
15:58
difference so kind of helps us get in
16:01
tune with things on a more granular
16:03
basis
16:04
yeah I think the way you describe that
16:06
was really helpful because I I think
16:08
these two things are complementary
16:09
having the aqua lab and taking the
16:11
measurements but also understanding what
16:13
your environment is and how this can
16:14
affect different strains so I think that
16:16
was really helpful to hear awesome what
16:19
what are the financial impacts of making
16:21
sure that your water activity is right
16:23
you know what if it's a little low or a
16:25
little high do you have any sense of how
16:27
this can help or hurt your team
16:29
financially
16:30
yeah absolutely I mean if you're over
16:33
drying and you're removing too much
16:35
moisture out of the flowers
16:37
um I mean that's that's just
16:39
quantifiable and pure weight so whatever
16:42
you charge say you charge it you know a
16:44
dollar a gram or that's the value you
16:48
you get on the wholesale Market or the
16:50
retail Market you know for your product
16:53
hypothetically speaking and you are over
16:57
drying by say two percent of your
17:00
overall weight and you're producing a
17:01
thousand grams
17:03
um well it starts to add up pretty
17:05
quickly
17:06
um you know that's 20 bucks out of your
17:07
pocket right there or whatever the math
17:09
comes out to so you can really truly
17:12
quantify
17:14
um the monetary or the financial impact
17:17
that the devices can have when
17:19
implemented correctly
17:20
um and that's that's the quantifiable
17:24
um the more subjective and qualitative
17:27
aspects are also incredibly incredibly
17:30
valuable and it's hard to really you
17:32
know measure from a pure numbers
17:35
standpoint but you know you're going to
17:37
have better flour you're going to have
17:38
better cured flour you're gonna have a
17:41
better moisture content with a better
17:43
feel in the hand a better squish better
17:45
smoke
17:47
um all of the things that are very
17:49
important that the craft connoisseur
17:52
kind of demographic or really looking at
17:54
and Grading
17:57
um you know the the product that they
17:58
purchase and consume off of
18:01
um those are the other things that these
18:02
devices are really really going to help
18:04
with that you just don't really can't
18:06
really track on the spreadsheet so to
18:08
speak
18:08
and that led straight into my next
18:10
question is you know can your consumers
18:13
tell the difference do they see the
18:14
difference in the quality and have you
18:16
heard some feedback from them since you
18:17
started implementing water activity and
18:20
aqua lab and Scala and so on I think so
18:23
I definitely I definitely think that
18:24
they notice the difference and we have
18:27
heard positive feedback about the
18:28
consistency between batches
18:31
um you know how fresh the flowers seem
18:33
and feel and smoke
18:36
um and you know before that we were
18:39
having some variability or um we were
18:42
having some variation between batches in
18:44
terms of this one's a little bit drier
18:46
and this one's you know right on par but
18:49
um that consistency definitely is key
18:51
and we have heard you know positive
18:53
feedback from our customer base about
18:55
that
18:57
and now what's next for you guys what's
18:58
next for us Sonoran Roots this year and
19:00
maybe looking five ten years down the
19:02
road
19:03
oh man uh we're constantly moving man
19:07
we're looking for different
19:08
opportunities and you know we're excited
19:10
about a couple projects we have in the
19:12
works right now so the immediate kind of
19:14
plans for us are focusing on a joint
19:17
venture with the tissue culture lap here
19:19
in Arizona
19:21
we're very excited about that and also a
19:24
joint venture with an infusion company
19:27
um to start making some edibles under
19:28
our license we're very very excited
19:30
about that
19:33
um and besides that you know we're
19:34
looking at different opportunities in
19:36
other markets and other states and stuff
19:37
but we're very heavily focused on
19:40
Arizona and you know this is home for
19:42
all of us we're all local
19:44
um and we like we like the idea of
19:47
remaining a local or Regional operator
19:50
um and so that's that's the immediate
19:53
plans the five to ten year plans is um
19:55
it's almost uh too too crazy and
19:58
difficult to speculate um things are
20:00
changing so fast so we're just kind of
20:02
rolling with the flow right now and uh
20:04
seeing kind of what happens next
20:06
sure just one day at a time is all we
20:09
can really do exactly in a whole as a
20:12
whole where do you see the Cannabis
20:13
industry going I mean you've been in it
20:15
a long time now you know from getting
20:16
your medical card to helping start this
20:18
company and where do you see the
20:20
industry going in maybe five or ten
20:22
years
20:23
I think in uh five years wolf for sure
20:26
or hopefully for sure be looking at a
20:30
completely uh legalized National
20:32
landscape
20:34
um and with that I think we'll have the
20:36
Advent of Interstate transport so from
20:39
one you know one state to the next
20:41
um and I also think that would be will
20:43
be uh experiencing
20:45
a whole new wave of license allocation
20:47
for on-site consumption uh so just you
20:51
know the same way you could um you know
20:53
distill and distribute liquor
20:56
um well you and I can also go into a bar
20:57
and you know have a shot of tequila if
21:00
we want so I think that next wave of
21:03
being able to go into a lounge and going
21:05
into a you know a safe environment or a
21:08
controlled environment and consume
21:10
cannabis products that's going to be the
21:13
next big wave of Licensing that I think
21:16
will be coming down the pipeline here in
21:18
about five years
21:19
and that will open the doors to all
21:21
sorts of new innovation and new business
21:23
and business owners and revenue
21:26
generated by cannabis that would be my
21:29
that would be my kind of big two
21:31
uh benchmarks for The Five-Year Plan
21:35
um 10 years I think is total totally
21:38
Global
21:39
um if there is even Regional operators
21:42
still hanging around at that time
21:44
um I think it will be the era of Major
21:47
Brands and major big business
21:50
um you know they're gonna come in and
21:52
they're going to you know cherry pick
21:54
the best operators and the best
21:56
operations and
21:59
um it's gonna be it's going to be a
22:01
completely different landscape at that
22:03
point in time and
22:05
um I think from the on the genetic side
22:07
of things it's going to be
22:09
it's gonna be a situation of which we're
22:12
actually licensing the the cultivars the
22:15
genetics the IP I think all of it will
22:18
be protected under Federal and
22:20
international trademark law
22:22
um and an intellectual property law
22:25
um and so we want to grow cush mints
22:29
um you know we're going to need to get
22:30
in touch with JB zsc junkie genetics and
22:34
we're gonna have to pay you know pay our
22:36
dues to to grow that strain and I think
22:40
that'll be a very interesting new wave
22:43
of a business of science scientific
22:46
development
22:48
um uh pushing you know pushing the
22:50
market even further than where it's at
22:52
today and where it'll be in five years
22:54
probably
22:55
yeah it's exciting to watch it grow and
22:57
uh it's great to have you here and kind
22:59
of get your perspective we've had some
23:01
of our partners at Dewey scientific and
23:03
they have more of a genetics look on on
23:05
their products and so it's just
23:07
interesting to see how different people
23:08
in the same industry are are looking
23:10
ahead five or ten years down the road
23:12
but uh it's exciting to watch you guys
23:14
grow and it's been awesome to see you
23:16
implement water activity and Scala and
23:19
so on so Jeremy I just want to thank you
23:21
so much for your time I think this will
23:22
be really helpful and and interesting to
23:24
our listeners and maybe we'll have you
23:27
back at some point and see how things
23:28
are going awesome no I really appreciate
23:31
you guys having me on and look forward
23:32
to talking with you soon thanks have a
23:35
good one Jeremy alrighty have a good one
23:37
I'm Zachary Cartwright this is water in
23:40
food
23:41
find this podcast on Apple iTunes
23:44
Spotify or wherever you listen to
23:46
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