Episode 59: The Drip by AQUALAB: Exploring Ice Cream Science with Abigail Thiel

About the guest 

Abigail Thiel is a postdoctoral researcher at Wageningen University in the Netherlands, specializing in food quality and design. Her research focuses on ice cream microstructure, healthier fat alternatives, and sustainable food production. Beyond the lab, Abigail runs the popular YouTube channel Abbey the Food Scientist, where she makes complex food science topics accessible and engaging for a broader audience. Through her work, she bridges the gap between scientific innovation and everyday food experiences.

Transcript

Zachary Cartwright :
Did you know that there are specific terms for the pieces of candy and ribbons of caramel in a pint of ice cream? Welcome to the Drip, where we keep your mind hydrated with some science music and a mantra. I'm your host, Zachary Cartwright, lead food scientist at AQUALAB by Addium. In today's episode, we're going to be discussing the science behind your favorite summer treat, ice cream. So thank you, Abby, so much for being here today. How did you begin studying the science of ice cream?

Abbey :
So I was very lucky, and it just happened that the lab that I did my master's and PhD in, it was a ice cream and confection research lab. So we did, like, research onto every sweet treat. But my research, my whole project, a master's through PhD, was more on the microstructure of ice cream, specifically.

Zachary Cartwright :
And how did you pick these topics? Was there specific funding for these topics, or this was just what your advisor was interested in? How did you decide to really focus on things like this?

Abbey :
Yes, so in my case, it was funded, like, when I started the project, a grant came in for my professor, and it actually was USDA funding, because what we were looking at is using, like, healthier fats or something other than milk fat. Could you get, like, the same fat structure, which is really critical for, like, the texture of ice cream and how it melts down? So in my case, it was funded by a grant. But a lot of my lab mates, they often had maybe funding from different companies. Maybe a confectionary company has a certain problem. And also some of the funding comes through, like, candy courses my lab and my advisor runs. So they teach professionals about candy science. They do, like, labs and make, you know, a whole bunch of chocolate and caramels and fudge? So our lab was, like, a really good mix of funding sources.

Zachary Cartwright :
I studied wine microbiology in grad school, but I think doing some candy and ice cream would be a very close second. So it sounds like a fun topic. What exactly are those pieces of candy? And maybe the caramel ribbon? What are those things called when you open a pint and see those in your ice cream? Do those have a term?

Abbey :
Yes. So those. We have specific terms for those. So the ribbons, it doesn't matter if it's caramel, fudge, whatever. We call those variegates. And then the candy pieces, those are inclusions. So if you want to sound like a real ice cream scientist, you have to say variegates and inclusions.

Zachary Cartwright :
Good to know. And. And what were the biggest takeaways from your Research looking at, you know, different fat substitutes and so on. What were the biggest takeaways that you found through your grad school studies?

Abbey :
So specific to my research, I would say oftentimes in food, like, this isn't just an ice cream, but if you want like a healthier version, you often have to sort of give up a little bit on like, the texture or maybe the sensory trippies. So, like, of course you could make like, sweets and candies healthier, but they're not gonna, like, feel the same in your mouth or maybe it melts down like a little weird. You know, there's not like a silver bullet to make something like, so delicious and really healthy. So it really was like this. You know, you kind of have to come to a compromise, like health wise and texture wise.

Zachary Cartwright :
And I understand you also started another project during your PhD and you started a YouTube channel. And I'm also somebody who likes to have lots of projects, but tell me about that process and how that got started.

Abbey :
Yes, so this. I actually started my YouTube channel, like, Covid 2020, like March 2020, because what happened was like, I mean, we kind of knew it was coming, you know, because parts of the world were shutting down. And eventually the. The university, like, told us, you're going home for like, two weeks or whatever. And to be honest, I was at least thankful because I was writing my dissertation, which meant, like, I wasn't doing lab work, so, like, I could just take my computer and my books home and like, keep working. So I was lucky with that. But I was just. Even after, like two weeks, I just felt like I was losing my mind because all I was supposed to do was write up, like, several years of research.

Abbey :
And I just was like, I need a creative outlet. I need to have some other activity where I, like, use my brain differently because, I mean, you're not seeing people anymore. So really all I was doing was writing. And so this is when I launched, like, my first food science video on YouTube. And to be honest, it was something I had been thinking about for a long time. Actually, it was my boyfriend's idea. And every couple weeks he'd be like, you should start a YouTube channel. And I thought that was a little crazy because I had no experience that would make me, like, a good YouTuber.

Abbey :
Like, I wasn't good at doing videos. I didn't know how to edit them. But my boyfriend thought it was a great idea because he is not a food scientist. And before we met, he, like, didn't know food science existed. And so through like, meeting all my food science friends. And when we get together, he'd always be like, how? I learned, like, the coolest stuff, like, with your friends, because they're all food scientists. And he's like, abby, like, no one knows this stuff, but, like, it's super fun. And so he had this grand idea, and I'd always be like, no.

Abbey :
Like, I'm literally just trying to finish my PhD right now. Like, this is not the time. And so, like, the seed had been planted much earlier. And then when I was, like, kind of stuck home alone, that is when I actually, like, started making videos.

Zachary Cartwright :
That's awesome. And I think it's such a good reminder, especially to people working on their thesis or dissertation, that you think you're supposed to spend all your time doing that. But sometimes picking up a hobby or working on another project gives you the balance that you need to. To really be able to do a good job when you're going through that writing process. So I'm glad that you're able to find this through making this YouTube channel. What. What is your channel called for our listeners, in case they want to look it up and listen to it?

Abbey :
Yes. So if you go to YouTube and just type in Abby, the food scientist, you will definitely find me, because I think it's been a little over, like, five years now, so I have, like, over a hundred videos. You can find me that way.

Zachary Cartwright :
And what is your process for picking different topics for your videos? Are these just things that you hear? Maybe your colleagues or your friends that are interested in or the projects that you've worked on? What. What is your process to find those topics?

Abbey :
So it's a bit of a mix and a match, and I definitely have done both you mentioned. So for the most part, it happens easily, because I'm just such a nerd that I'm always, like, reading and digging into food science things. So oftentimes it is like, oh, I just found this topic. Like, today I was looking up how food packaging affects the flavor of the food. How, like, different packaging affects flavor of different products and what packaging would be best. And so it's just like, oh, that's very interesting to me. I'm gonna go read and really dig down into this, and, like, next week, I'll make a video on it. So that's definitely one thing is like, I just nerd out.

Abbey :
And I can't, like, stop myself from reading it, but I definitely get other videos. My friends or my family will text me all the time, like, oh, I left this out of the fridge, or My ice cream melted and now the texture is all weird. Or they'll be like, my aunt is like, screaming about artificial colors. Is it true that it's so bad? And so it definitely is a lot of influence on my, like, close circle of family and friends, too.

Zachary Cartwright :
And so you started this YouTube channel. You finished your PhD. What, what was next for you after that?

Abbey :
Yes. So after my PhD, I knew I wanted to do my postdoc mostly because I really wanted to go abroad and like, travel a bit and see something else. Because I was born and raised in Wisconsin. I spent 10 years at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and I was like, this would be the best time for me to go somewhere different. You know, there's. I have very few responsibilities. So I ended up getting a postdoc at Wageningen University in the Netherlands. It's like a big food science university there.

Abbey :
So from 2021 to 2023, I was actually living in the Netherlands and I was in the food quality and design group doing research.

Zachary Cartwright :
And what was the most interesting research that you did there? What. What was your biggest takeaway from that experience?

Abbey :
I learned a lot. But there's one project that I thought was just so interesting. So when I was there, I was a researcher on it, and now remotely, I'm the project manager. But the dairy group there has this really interesting project where it's called precision fermentation. But basically what they're trying to do is like, use yeast cells as little factories and teach yeast to make milk protein, specifically casein. And that way you could get around, you know, having to have cows and a lot of cows and greenhouse gases to make this protein. So instead they're trying to get this protein from yeast. And so we're trying to, like, upscale that and see if it's a more sustainable way to get this milk ingredient.

Abbey :
It could be turned into different dairy products. But to me, it's. It's a very, like, futuristic, innovative research I think is very cool.

Zachary Cartwright :
And what types of things are you up to now? So you have your PhD, your channel, you have this experience overseas. What does your day to day look like now?

Abbey :
Yes, so for about the past year or so, I've been working for myself, which just means I've been doing a lot of different things. So I've done a lot of blogging and of course, my YouTube channel. I've done ghost writing when people need, like, a food science writer. But most recently, what's been really exciting for me is I actually launched my first online course. So I have a course anyone can sign up for. It's called Food Science for Beginners. And I was really aiming it at food companies. There's a lot of people who aren't food scientists but have to like interact with food scientists or they maybe sell the product, sell the food.

Abbey :
And so it's aimed at these people that maybe don't have a background in food, but learning just like the basics would be super useful for their job.

Zachary Cartwright :
Yeah, and I'm so glad that you brought that up because I think it's such a helpful resource. Even people in my own company, you know, who work in sales or marketing or other positions where they're working for a food company, for Aqualab, but they don't always have the background that they need that would really help them take it to the next level and understand how to communicate effectively within the food industry and so on. And what, what are some of the topics that you cover during your course? And, and how long is the course from start to finish?

Abbey :
Yes. So video wise, I have about seven hours of video content. The, the videos are short, right? It's like five to 10 minutes. So you can sneak these in in between like meetings and calls. But basically I dive into like water and foods as a section. Proteins, lipids and carbohydrates. And so like I'll do water because that's, you know, important to you. So like how we talk about like water activity and how water can migrate and what is moisture content.

Abbey :
So within like these four, you know, molecules that make up foods, we really dive into more of like the chemistry or like the basic science of like how does food change over time and how do these different ingredients and molecules interact? Which I think sounds complex, but I made it so that like it doesn't matter if you're a scientist or not. Like this is a, an approachable course for everyone.

Zachary Cartwright :
And how long does the course take? Is this something that you move at your own pace or are there assignments related to it? What, what's that aspect look like?

Abbey :
No, so it's more self paced so you can, you have a year, the, you know, access to the materials for a year and basically it goes like a video on the topic and then I have a companion ebook so you can read like the chapter on topic and then you can move forward as fast or as slowly as you want. So I've had one student, she went through it in like two weeks and I have a couple others where they're like still on the first module and they maybe will take that year. So it's really up to you.

Zachary Cartwright :
Yeah, I find that that really helps. That way you can kind of digest it, you know, think it over and then move to the next chapter or next video when you're ready. If somebody listening is interested in this or they have a colleague that they think could really benefit from it. What, what's the best way to sign up or learn more about your courses?

Abbey :
Yes. So if you go to my website, it's just Abby the food scientist.com you'll see courses on the top. And you can just click that courses tab and it goes into detail of like the topics are listed out and a couple more like questions that I've gotten asked us over time. Over time again. So you can definitely find more information at my website, Abby the Food Scientist. And if you're not sure yet, you know, if you want to buy it, you can look at my YouTube content for free, which is kind of teaching just in like a different sense of, to a more general audience.

Zachary Cartwright :
And that's Abby, A B, B, E, Y. Is that correct?

Abbey :
Yes.

Zachary Cartwright :
Okay.

Abbey :
My parents spelled it a very weird way which makes it difficult as an adult.

Zachary Cartwright :
Abby, what music recommendations did you bring with you today?

Abbey :
Yes. So I'm sorry, but I am on the Taylor Swift bandwagon entirely, I have to say. So I recommend any Taylor Swift I did. Unfortunately, she was just in Indianapolis where I live. I couldn't get tickets. Both my sisters tried to get tickets. My brother in law, we had no luck. So I just, you know, had to live through everyone else's like photos I saw on social media.

Abbey :
But I'm a big Taylor Swift fan and it's very fun now because my two nieces are old enough, they have also started listening to her music. So we have a lot of fun together.

Zachary Cartwright :
That's awesome. I'm sure it will work out one of these days. Hopefully you can go to a show.

Abbey :
Yes, exactly.

Zachary Cartwright :
And what mantra did you bring with you? Like a quote or a saying, something that maybe you use to motivate yourself or bring some balance to your life?

Abbey :
Yes. So I wanted to bring the mantra that success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. And this was a quote by Albert Schwitzer. And I actually came across it a couple years ago reading a book called the Slight Edge. And the book is basically how like over time all your little like good habits or good deeds will add up and eventually it has like an exponential effect on your life. So I just thought it was like an interesting book to keep up all the good things you do, even though like you haven't seen, maybe like the fruits of your labor.

Zachary Cartwright :
Well, thank you so much for bringing that mantra and a music recommendation and telling us a little bit about your research and what you're doing now. I think you're doing such great work in the industry and helping educate a lot of people who need that background for our entire industry to keep moving forward. So Abby, thank you so much for jumping on the podcast today and best of luck with everything you're working on.

Abbey :
No, thank you so much. It's been fun.

Zachary Cartwright :
Today's episode is sponsored by Aqualab. In this episode we discussed one of my favorite foods, ice cream. Did you know that moisture migration in ice cream is often a key challenge that companies have to deal with? Despite being frozen, moisture migration can still occur in ice cream due to several key factors including temperature fluctuations, vapor pressure gradients, variability in composition and solute concentration, air pockets and packaging integrity. At Aqualab, solving moisture migration issues is one of our favorite applications. Whether it requires formulating different components to the same water activity, adding films, coatings or encapsulations, or re evaluating packaging needs in order to hit specific shelf life goals. Our testing and consultation services are available to you no matter how big or small your team is. A link to learn more about our testing and consulting services will be in the podcast Description this week. The song that I just can't get out of my head is It Goes In Waves by Enzo.

Zachary Cartwright :
Featuring a line and Blueka, this song is a mesmerizing journey through down tempo electronic soundscapes. The track seamlessly blends the distinct styles of each artist, resulting in a calming yet immersive listening experience. Its atmospheric layers and fluid rhythms evoke the ebb and flow suggested by the title. Reflecting a shared psychedelic inspiration, the production balances deep bass elements with ethereal melodies, creating a dynamic yet soothing piece that resonates emotionally. This collaboration highlights each artist's talents for crafting intricate, mood driven music. Enzo's signature sound, known for introspective and textured elements, combines perfectly with the lines and Blueka's contributions, adding depth and warmth to the track. The song exemplifies the label's commitment to down tempo, meditative music, making it a standout release in the genre's growing landscape. I've added this track to my own yoga playlist and a link to the song will be in the podcast description.

Zachary Cartwright :
To round out this episode, here is another mantra this episode's mantra is I am unaffected by the judgment of others. I'm going to repeat this three times. And maybe you can say this out loud yourself. Here we go. I am unaffected by the judgment of others. I am unaffected by the judgment of others. I am unaffected by the judgment of others. As you keep this mantra in mind, I also challenge you to ask yourself, why am I worried about other people's opinions? And how can I stop worrying about what other people think? Thank you so much for listening to this episode.

Zachary Cartwright :
My name is Zachary Cartwright, and this has been another episode of the Drip, brought to you by Aqua Lab. Stay hydrated and see you next.